Freedom to Learn

Tony de Nicola on Education Freedom, Budget Reconciliation, & the ECCA

• Ginny Gentles • Season 1 • Episode 25

Share episode

The U.S. House budget reconciliation bill includes a federal tax credit that could make K-12 scholarships available to students in every state across America. Tony de Nicola, Invest in Education chairman, joins the podcast to discuss the Educational Choice for Children Act’s (ECCA) strong support in Congress, the White House, and the public. De Nicola shares his personal education journey and explains why expanding school choice is a national imperative.


Invest in Education Coalition: https://investineducation.org/coalition/

POLL: Americans Strongly Support School Choice: https://investineducation.org/poll-americans-strongly-support-school-choice/


🔗 Links & Resources:

  • Visit our website: DFIPolicy.org

💡 Stay Connected:

  • Follow us on Instagram: @DFIPolicy
  • Follow us on Twitter: @DFIPolicy
  • Follow us on Facebook: /DFIPolicy
  • Subscribe to our YouTube channel (@DFIPolicy) for future episodes!

📩 Contact Us:
If you have feedback or suggestions for future podcasts, please reach out to us at Podcast@DFIPolicy.org.

🎧 Thank You for Listening:
Freedom to Learn is a production of the Defense of Freedom Institute. You can learn more about DFI at DFIPolicy.org.

If you enjoyed this episode, please give it a thumbs up, share it, and subscribe for more insights into education law and policy. Thank you for your support!

Virginia Gentles (00:00)
Welcome to Freedom to Learn, the podcast that champions choice in education, defends parental rights, and exposes the harm caused by school unions. I'm Ginny Gentles, Director of Education, Freedom, and Parental Rights at DFI, the Defense of Freedom Institute in Washington, DC.

Welcome to Freedom to Learn. After the budget reconciliation bill passed the US House Ways and Means Committee last week, members of Congress, including Burgess Owens and Elise Stefanik held a press conference extolling the benefits of education freedom and explaining why they support, including a federal tax credit for contributions to K-12 scholarship granting organizations in the reconciliation bill. 


Rep. Burgess Owens (00:41)

The Educational Choice for Children Act is the most consequential bill in our lifetime, and it is exactly what American families need…These scholarships let families choose the education that best fit their child…It supports low and middle-class incomes, covering up to 90% of k-12 students. It is not a federal mandate. No new bureaucracy, no cuts in public and school districts. These are new dollars, private generated, locally used. It’s a true win-win. 


Virginia Gentles (01:09)

The tax credit was originally proposed as the Educational Choice for Children Act, or ECCA, and it will support K-12 scholarships for tuition, books, special education therapies, tutoring, and other educational needs. 


The ECCA amassed over 185 congressional co-sponsors last Congress, and it has been included in that big, beautiful budget reconciliation bill as it has passed through multiple committees over the last week. President Trump and his education secretary have repeatedly expressed support for school choice. During the campaign, the president pledged to sign school choice legislation. And he issued an executive order championing school choice earlier this year. 


Today I'm talking with Tony de Nicola, chairman of the Invest in Education Coalition, a policy and advocacy organization he co-founded in 2012 to promote improvement in K-12 education, increase educational choice, and close gaps. Tony serves on numerous additional boards. He was a founding board member of Brilla College Prep in the Bronx, and is the chairman of a New York private investment firm. We'll dive into the ECCA's momentum, the widespread political and public support for the federal tax credit and Tony's response to union attacks on the proposal.


Tony de Nicola, welcome to Freedom to Learn.


Tony de Nicola (02:22)

I appreciate you having me.


Virginia Gentles (02:23)

I am curious about your K-12 educational journey. And I'm asking because I've long wondered why are you so committed to expanding educational options for American families?


Tony de Nicola (02:34)

That's a great question. Well, I think it's a personal journey, like it has been for many people. You know, I was raised in a single parent family. My father passed away when I was young. I had four siblings, five in total, and all of us went to the local Catholic school because of the generosity of benefactors and the pastor at that school. 


And that K-8 educational opportunity transformed my life and my siblings' lives. We're all college educated. Some of us have master's degrees. We're all productive citizens of society. And we've been beneficiaries of people in many cases that we didn't know who helped us out along the way. 


And as I've reflected back on my life over the years, I've recognized that there were key points in time that are inflection points. And early education is certainly one of those. And coming out of eighth grade, I was extremely well prepared for high school and coming out of high school for college and so on. And I credit that Catholic education for a lot of my success, career-wise and that of my family's. And then I went on and, my three children have all gone to Catholic schools, both at the elementary and high school level and have benefited greatly from that. So why not allow that opportunity for every family in the country?


Virginia Gentles (04:04)

Well, as chairman of the Invest in Education Coalition, that certainly seems to be your mission to ensure that every family has these same opportunities. You've been a driving force behind the Educational Choice for Children Act, ECCA. What is special about this particular proposal?


Tony de Nicola (04:23)

Sure. So first of all, thank you for those kind comments. But as you all know, this is a team effort and, we've been doing this for well over a decade and I'm standing on the shoulders of great leaders across the country over the last 30 plus years who've been advancing school choice, both at a local state and now at a federal level. 


And I'd have to call out in particular, you know, some key leaders that were informative in my own journey and those would include Peter Flanagan and Roger Hertog and Russ Carson and Tom McEnearney and several others And this bill that we're talking about now the culmination of 30 years of work and where the school choice movement is in 2025 today after, you know, the last decade or so, and in particular the last five years post COVID with the realities that families and parents experienced with lockdowns and lockouts and all sorts of other challenges that families had during COVID and thereafter, where the school choice movement is accelerating around the country at a state level. 


There are over, you know, 20 states now that have some form of private school choice and quickly increasing, with Texas being the most recent. With Texas today passed in a state level tax credit scholarship program, which is a billion dollars, by the way, kudos to Governor Abbott, Lieutenant Governor Patrick and the leadership there for making that happen. But even after that, the states that have private school choice represent just about 50% of the K-12 educational population in the country. And the corollary that means that 50% of the students in the country today do not have access to private school choice like they do in those 20 states. 


So this bill that we're talking about tries to improve on that and provide universal school choice across all 50 states and will allow families up to two million families across the country in each state to access private school choice that allows them to provide the best educational opportunities for their children, whether it's private school, homeschooling, tutoring, or other educational needs that will supplement what their kids need so that they can stay on pace and achieve their God-given potential.


Virginia Gentles (06:59)

We've seen great momentum, like you said, at the state level. So when you're talking about 30 years of history, it certainly has accelerated in those recent post-COVID years. And we do have over 15 states with universal school choice programs, thankfully, including Texas now, as you said. Why do we need to do this at the federal level? I hear you say half of students don't have this. Are you thinking that this can't happen at the state level?


Tony De Nicola (07:27)

No, more so that it's a national imperative. You know, so I could make the case a pretty compelling case that our educational outcomes over the last decade and in particular the last five years are a cause for national emergency. our test results, the NAEP scores just came out, as you well know, And those scores are horrendous. 


We're at levels that we haven't seen since the 1990s, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but roughly 30 to 35% of students at fourth and eighth grade levels are proficient at a grade level in math and reading. That is horrendous. That means that 65 % of our students are not reading or doing arithmetic at grade level. And so that to me is an economic security issue for the future of our country.


That's a national security issue for the safety and security of our country. And it's a civil rights issue for these families. These children, they only get one chance at being at fourth grade. They only get one chance at going to high school. If we miss this opportunity today, we're losing another generation of students. And if we don't educate them, then they become more dependent on the state than they otherwise would. We want these children to be


you know, educated, productive members of society. In my opinion, that starts with an educated populace. If we can educate our children so that they can do math and reading, they'll be able to have a future, a career, opportunities in this new, age of information and artificial intelligence


For workers, if you're not educated, it makes it very hard for you to get a job in our society. And therefore, how do you become productive? How do you become fulfilled? How do you live up to your God-given potential without that foundational element of education?


Virginia Gentles (09:25)

When people hear us talk about those really low percentages of students who are proficient, I think they don't realize just how high the percentages are of students who are testing at the below basic level. You're talking 40% of students with below basic reading, literacy, or math skills. And that's where it does get alarming. You can't be a productive member of society if you do not even possess basic skills.


So I understand why we see such momentum around this proposal and why you are describing it as a national imperative. The ECCA, Educational Choice for Children Act, has been gaining incredible traction in Congress. I believe there were over 180 co-sponsors in the last Congress across the House and the Senate, and we've had it reintroduced and on the move this Congress as well. Have you seen the trajectory progressing in Congress? Are you seeing that members are waking up to the need for this?


Tony De Nicola (10:24)

Yes, absolutely. There is a there's a building crescendo of support, both at a local level, a state level and a federal level. I would shout out to my team at Invest in Education and all of our partner organizations like AFC and others who've been in this fight for a long time. And we've been focused intently in on Capitol Hill over the last five or six years to work with policymakers, both members of Congress and their staffs to educate them about the public policy benefits of school choice. And the empirical data is unequivocal that school choice works across the country. 


There's over 185 studies now that demonstrate that school choice benefits, not just the kids and the families who are beneficiaries of school choice, but it improves the educational outcomes in the entire state because guess what, competition improves results. And so that's basically what school choice is all about, empowering parents and families to let them select the best educational opportunity for their children. And then what follows from that is those children get a better education than they might otherwise. And then the entire ecosystem of education in the area improves because of the response to competition for students. 


And so policymakers on the Hill over the last four or five years have come because of what's going on at a state level, because of what's going on at a grassroots level. Families and organizations and faith communities and students are advocating for and asking for more parental empowerment, more parental choice for their kids. 


So policymakers are listening to that. Which is why it's very important for grassroots organizations to continue to reach out to your members of Congress in a polite and respectful way and ask them to continue to support the Educational Choice for Children's Act on the Hill. But to your point, in the last Congress, we had over 185 members of Congress. had every member of leadership in the U.S. House of Representatives as sponsors of our bill from Mike Johnson, Steve Scalise, Tom Emmer Linda (Lisa) McClain, Elise Stefanik, all the way down, our sponsors of our bill in the U.S. John Thune, John Barrasso, John Cornyn, Steve Daines, all the way down. Our lead sponsors, I should say, are in the House of Representatives. Adrian Smith has been a stalwart champion of this bill in the House. Burgess Owens has been an incredible partner in his team. Byron Donalds has been incredibly strong.


Jim Jordan, and I could go through a list of ⁓ Dr. Virginia Foxx and Julia Letlow a whole host of real stars in the US House have been championing this. then Jason Smith, the chairman of Ways and Means, has been an incredible partner in getting our bill moved along through Ways and Means, and his team there have been outstanding to work with. And so that's the US House and what we've been doing there.


And then the other chamber is obviously the US Senate. I mentioned the entire leadership team there is to be commended. Senator Crapo shares finance. He's been a big ally of ours as well. And our lead sponsors in the Senate, importantly, are Bill Cassidy, Senator Cassidy from Louisiana, has been a staunch supporter of everything that we're doing, a great partner in shaping this bill. And then Senator Tim Scott has been his companion in this battle.


And Tim is a beneficiary of school choice. He understands it intuitively. He's been sort of the school choice champion in the US Senate. He's been fantastic. And then we've got a lot of folks like Tom Cotton, Ashley Moody, and Katie Britt, and Marsha Blackburn, and a whole host of other senators, Jim Banks, and Pete Ricketts, Eric advocates for what we're doing.


And that was not the case eight or 10 or 12 years ago. So we have tremendous momentum right now in Congress to get this done. And I would just encourage all those that are listening that just continue to reach out to your members of Congress and encourage them that school choice is important and that you support it.


Virginia Gentles (14:54)

I want to take a minute to acknowledge what you said about Congressman Burgess Owens from Utah. He was one of our very first guests on the Freedom to Learn podcast series, and he immediately jumped into talking about ECCA and the specifics and what he wanted to see happen. He has been a real driving force behind the concept of school choice and then specifically the how to get it done in a really high impact way. So very thankful for his leadership.


Tony De Nicola (15:20)

He's amazing.


I totally agree with you, Virginia. Yes.


Virginia Gentles (15:23)

Yeah, because there are a lot of issues that all of these members of Congress are called on to speak to. But clearly this is an issue that he is personally very dedicated to. And it's been impressive to see. 


You talked number of aspects that have led to the widespread support among these legislators, both at the state and federal level. Can we touch a little bit about the public support that you're seeing, polling numbers that you'd like to share. I know that that is something that congressional staff love to hear and share with their bosses.


Tony De Nicola (15:57)

So a big part of what we do at Invest in Education is provide the research, the information, the data to policymakers to understand the public policy benefits, why it's good public policy, and then also the political aspects of this. And you just hit on polling, polling is the coin of the realm in the political world, as you well know. about two months ago, we commissioned the newest poll.


that we did on school choice by Tony Fabrizio and associates. They came out with a poll at the end of January or February. And it once again demonstrates what we all know that families across the spectrum, every demographic group, every political group, this is a 75%, almost 80% favorable issue for families who support school choice. 


And so it's a high 80s for Republicans, it's a 65% issue for Democrats, and it's a 70% issue or plus for independents. And then all the faith communities, it's a very popular issue with the Latino community, it's a very popular issue with the Black community. Those polls come back when you look at the cross tabs in the 75, 80% favorability rating for school choice and for our bill, ECCA.


So the point of the realm is polls. What are your constituents as a lawmaker want you to do? And we can demonstrate with the polling. And I think November is a great example of what happened there at the ballot box as well, which is the ultimate poll. This is the moment for school choice. This is a time when parents and families are advocating for and demanding school choice. 


And the ECCA is the bill that's available right now to be passed. It's a universal school choice bill. It applies to all 50 states universally, and over 2 million kids could benefit from it once it's passed. And so it's, as you well know, it's a very positive issue with voters.


Virginia Gentles (18:08)

So we've talked about the Invest in Education Coalition that you chair. You've mentioned American Federation for Children, But you all have rallied over 150 national and state groups. So what are you calling on those groups, grassroots advocates, and parents specifically to do as we watch this reconciliation process unfold.


Tony De Nicola (18:31)

Yeah, great question. So, ⁓ yeah, and I am always reticent to call out lawmakers or coalition partners because we have so many and we actually have almost 200 coalition partners today. It was 150 and it keeps building because of the momentum that is that we are we're seeing in in our bill movement. so those ⁓ organizations that, you know, include every faith community from Christian, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, et cetera, are all supporters of what we're doing. And they're very engaged with us. And they're very, we're connected with them to make sure they understand what's going on, what the process from here looks like, and how they can be helpful. And the question you asked is how can they be helpful? And it's very simple. We love for their, the families that are on scholarships, the beneficiaries, their grassroots, supporters, their own donors and benefactors to reach out to members of Congress and to demonstrate to them, either in person or by email or by phone call or by letter writing, that they're supporters of the ECCA and they're encouraging their members of Congress to pass ECCA in the reconciliation bill that is moving now.


Virginia Gentles (19:50)

Let's turn to White House support as we wrap up. President Trump publicly stated on Fox and Friends, believe it was during the campaign, anything to do with school choice, I'll support. He's indicated that he would sign a big school choice proposal. How significant is this White House backing?


Tony De Nicola (20:06)

It's incredibly significant. This White House, this president, this administration is fully behind what we're doing. I've had several meetings in the White House, the West Wing last week. We've met with members of the administration across all key areas, secretaries of key departments that you would know, or deputy secretaries, and they're fully supportive of what we're trying to get done.


Vice President JD Vance was an original sponsor of our bill when he was Senator Vance from Ohio. He understands school choice personally and politically. Ohio is a big school choice state as well. So this president has said from actually 2016 onward in every one of his campaigns that he's a big supporter of school choice. 


Over the last year or so, they've become big supporters of the Educational Choice for Children Act. and I could tell you in my conversations with key leaders in the Senate and the House, that matters. What is moving through the reconciliation process in large measure is a function of what is important to congressional leadership and more important, what is important to the President of the United States. And he said multiple times,


that school choice is one of his top priorities. And I know in my conversations with key leaders of Congress that the reason that ECCA is in the reconciliation bill and it's moving forward is because this president, President Trump has said he supports it and he wants it to happen in this year.


Virginia Gentles (21:49)

Well, there are some entities out there that don't want it to happen. So I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the teachers unions because they are loud on Capitol Hill and they have a number of opponents calling this a scheme. I hear that a lot when I'm testifying and attending congressional hearings. If you had an opportunity to speak to a union member, what would you say to them about the ECCA proposal?


Tony De Nicola (22:14)

Well, I think the term scheme is an interesting one or whatever other ⁓ euphemism they might use for school choice. At the end of the day, this is about empowering parents to choose the best school or academic environment for their children. It's no more complicated than that. This is about children's lives. This is about children's educations. This is about improving the overall educational outcomes in this country for each student and all students and therefore for the country. The politics of it will not change in our lifetime, I don't think. And so we try to avoid that. We're not here to argue or debate what opponents say about our bill. the proof is in the pudding as they say, the evidence is out there.


Families want it, children that benefit from it do better than children that don't. The states that have it are performing better than states that don't have it. And it's no more complicated than letting parents choose where their children should be educated. And so you can call it a scheme. And I would say, absolutely. It's a scheme to help parents help their kids become productive citizens. That's all it is.


Virginia Gentles (23:32)

Well, Tony de Nicola, thank you for your commitment to education freedom and thank you for joining Freedom to Learn.


Tony De Nicola (23:38)

Thanks for having me. It was my pleasure. Thanks for all you're doing.