Freedom to Learn

Cade Brumley on Louisiana’s Reading Revival, Impressive NAEP Scores, & New ESA Program

• Ginny Gentles • Season 1 • Episode 14

Share episode

Louisiana was a rare bright spot amid grim Nation’s Report Card math and reading results. Dr. Cade Brumley, Louisiana’s superintendent of education, joins Freedom to Learn to discuss the state's impressive progress and his ambitions for further improvement. He shares insights into the policies driving success–a reading revival focused on the Science of Reading, empowering teachers, and expanding educational freedom for families. Dr. Brumley also highlights Louisiana’s plans to open more charter schools and launch the GATOR program, which will provide flexible K-12 education savings accounts to Pelican State families. 

🔗 Links & Resources:

  • Visit our website: DFIPolicy.org

💡 Stay Connected:

  • Follow us on Instagram: @DFIPolicy
  • Follow us on Twitter: @DFIPolicy
  • Follow us on Facebook: /DFIPolicy
  • Subscribe to our YouTube channel (@DFIPolicy) for future episodes!

📩 Contact Us:
If you have feedback or suggestions for future podcasts, please reach out to us at Podcast@DFIPolicy.org.

🎧 Thank You for Listening:
Freedom to Learn is a production of the Defense of Freedom Institute. You can learn more about DFI at DFIPolicy.org.

If you enjoyed this episode, please give it a thumbs up, share it, and subscribe for more insights into education law and policy. Thank you for your support!

Ginny Gentles (0:00)
Welcome to Freedom to Learn, the podcast that champions choice in education, defends parental rights, and exposes the harm caused by school unions. I'm Ginny Gentles, Director of Education, Freedom, and Parental Rights at DFI, the Defense of Freedom Institute in Washington, DC.


Dr. Cade Brumley (0:21)

We believe in Ed Freedom. Just put that out there from the beginning that every family should have the ability to select the school that makes the most sense for their child. And that may be multiple or different schools for different children.


Ginny Gentles (0:33)

States are continuing to expand families' education freedom opportunities. We've celebrated Tennessee's new Education Freedom Act in recent episodes. And last week, Idaho Governor Little signed the Idaho Parental Tax Credit into law, creating a $5,000 tax credit, $7,500 for students with disabilities, that can be used for private school expenses. Wyoming's legislature passed a bill creating the Steamboat Legacy Scholarship Program, an Education Savings Account available to all families in the state.

Listeners may recall that President Trump last month signed an Expanding Educational Freedom and Opportunity for Families Executive Order, acknowledging that too many children do not thrive in their assigned government run K-12 school. Today, we're focusing on how the state of Louisiana is embracing education freedom while driving significant improvement in educational outcomes. We're joined by Dr. Cade Brumley, who has served as Louisiana State Superintendent of Education since 2020, bringing a back to basics approach that led to the state's highest ever Nation's Report Card results. Louisiana is one of only three states where students have surpassed pre-pandemic reading levels. Dr. Brumley served as a teacher, coach, school leader, and district superintendent before being appointed as state chief.

Superintendent Cade Brumley, welcome to Freedom to Learn.


Dr. Cade Brumley (1:53)

Hey, thanks for having me again.


Ginny Gentles (1:55)

So the 2024 Nations Report Card, or NAEP, math and reading results for 4th and 8th graders were bleak. Louisiana was one of the few bright spots. Talk about your NAEP results.


Dr. Cade Brumley (2:08)

Yeah, look, I mean, we're really excited. We're pleased, but we're not satisfied. It's hard to be arrogant when so many kids still aren't reading on grade level. So many kids can't do math. Too many kids are in schools that are failing them. So we have work to do, but you know, it's certainly worthy of acknowledgement. I start by thanking teachers, kids, parents, et cetera, policymakers. 


But in 2019, Louisiana ranked 49th in the country on the nation's report card. In 2022, we were able to move up to I think 43 or 44 and new results indicate that we're 32nd in the country. We've led the country in 4th grade literacy growth for two consecutive NAEP cycles. We're now in the top five for math growth. Our students with disabilities outpaced the national average. Our students from low income homes outpaced the national average. 


And so we think that obviously we're moving in the right direction. The data indicate that we are. And we just know that we need to acknowledge that. But we have to keep pushing in. Look, I've had my team back at the whiteboard since the results multiple times. And we're just trying to figure out, you know, how do we further refine? How do we continue to get better? Because education obviously does so much for the child. It helps with their standard of living in the long term. But for us, we're thinking about like how does education serve as a catalyst for the economy in our state as well.


Ginny Gentles (3:36)

So for people who aren't immersed in the language of assessment, what is it that you mean when you say that your students are leading in growth?


Dr. Cade Brumley (3:44)

So whenever we look at, for instance, the Nation's Report Card, when it came out in 2022 versus the results in 2024, our students continue to do better, kind of leading the pack, leading other states. And so I'm really fortunate to be able to work alongside a great team. We have a strong governor in Louisiana, Governor Landry. We have a strong legislature.


My state board is doing a really good job. And so we have a lot of energy in the education space in Louisiana and we need to because Louisiana has just been long challenged educationally. It's been a struggle for a long time. Obviously we have really high poverty rates and so it has been a challenge. And so for us to start seeing sustained growth is positive. Someone asked me, they said, “Are your NAEP results what you expected them to be?” and really the answer is “yes” because they track to our internal data. 


You know, our younger students are getting stronger in their ability to read. We still struggle too much with those intermediate and middle level grades. And so we've got work to do to figure some of that out. But again, progress, we're happy about it. We're just not ultimately satisfied.


Ginny Gentles (5:05)

Well, when you're talking about having evidence of growth in the 2019 to 2024 period, in the 2022 to 2024 period, when it comes to NAEP results, you are unusual. Louisiana is unusual, and that is why you all are receiving so much attention. What policies contributed to the results?


Dr. Cade Brumley (5:25)

Well, I mean, I think one, we believe in Ed Freedom. Just put that out there from the beginning that every family should have the ability to select the school that makes the most sense for their child. And that may be multiple or different schools for different children. So we put that out there first. Beyond that, I mean, I think the work that we've done around the science of reading, our reading strategy is the right strategy. We've stopped with the confusing tactics to teach children how to read.


We’ve unilaterally focused our shift to a phonics based approach with rich curriculum, access to high quality resources. So the reading strategy is right. You know, we're not doing social promotion anymore for kids who aren't ready to move from one grade to the next. So I could talk about, you know, a hundred different policies and practices and reading, but I'll just say, you know, that return to the basics there. We're also, we're also seeing in Louisiana some movement in math finally.


What's concerning to me across the country is that if you look at public schools, the longer that kids are in the public school in math, the worse the outcomes are in math. So proficiency rates actually decreased significantly from 4th to 8th grade. And I tell people we're going to be the first state to flip that. And we are beginning to do that. You know, we do symbolic things like I sent flashcards to every elementary classroom in the entire state of Louisiana.


But we also use more high tech opportunities from time to time with AI technology. So, we would credit back to the basics in both reading and math. And the other piece I think is really important is outside of just the parent empowerment piece is the elevation of the teacher. So we think that teachers deserve an environment where they're free from distraction. They don't have onerous paperwork and bureaucracy.


They don't have the redundant useless trainings. So we're trying to, and it's hard, and it doesn't happen overnight, but we're trying to figure out how to make the profession a bit more sustainable and fulfilling while also recognizing that the workforce is fluid. I am more interested in quality teachers than certified teachers. And so we need to remove barriers so that energetic, intelligent people have the opportunity to come into the teaching profession, both as teachers and leaders, and do that work for whatever amount of time works for them and support them along the journey. Pay them professionally, but also pay for merit. Pay for areas where it's harder to staff. High school math, high school science, special education. So we again, I just think we have a comprehensive set of reforms we've tried to implement, and it's really affirming to see them work in the data.


Ginny Gentles (8:13)

You started your response by talking about literacy, science of reading, phonics, and there are some that say, well, 45 states, it's something really high like that, have passed laws or policies that support science of reading, but the turnaround doesn't happen overnight. Has Louisiana been investing in this approach to reading for a while now?


Dr. Cade Brumley (8:35)

Yeah, we actually passed a suite of legislative proposals in 21, in 2021, more in 22. But so really for five years, we've been calling out the literacy crisis, asking for a reading revival in our state. And I, like you, I've talked to individuals in other states that said, oh, we passed that or we did that and our results still aren't here. 


And I don't, I don't know how to account for that in other places, but I can speak for my team. And we take execution implementation seriously. And I don't per se staff someone on our literacy team unless I'm convinced that they can go and teach a child to read. And so we're thinking about like, you know, what does it look like from a policy side? But also you've got to go from the state house all the way down to that child being in front of a teacher.


And that's a long road from the State House to that classroom on that rug or at that teaching table. And so we think about all the steps from that place to the next and how to make sure that's as seamless as possible.


Ginny Gentles (9:44)

When you're talking about making sure that you've got the right teachers there in the classroom, that they're trained to do what they need to do, that they're not burdened by administrivia, I've heard you talk about that in the context of a framework of let teachers teach. Are there lessons for other states to be drawn from your let teachers teach approach?


Dr. Cade Brumley (10:06)

Yeah, and look, we are even thinking now about what does what teachers teach 2.0 look like? We should be making the profession easier, not more difficult. We can't have an expectation that, you know, someone's coming to save us. You know, we have to create the policies and environments where teachers can be successful. We've got teacher vacancies by half just in the last three years, for instance.


I talk to teachers constantly. I have these conversations. They want leaders that are acceptable, meaning they're school leaders to them. They want places where they can get better at their job, but not be bombarded by useless training or distracted training. 


They want behavior of students in the classroom that allows them to teach and other kids to learn and they want to be paid fairly and I don't think that's too much to ask in any profession and we're trying to deliver on that and it's not something we've accomplished overnight and we've got a lot of work left to do but it is something that is top of mind for us. How can we deliver on a better environment for teachers in the classroom?


Ginny Gentles (11:12)

When you talk about Louisiana's approach to education freedom, to math and reading instruction, to letting teachers teach, it makes me think about how with the success of Mississippi's approach to literacy, they call it the “Mississippi Miracle.” You've got this full package of approaches that you're working on. So any ideas on what we should be calling what's happening in Louisiana?


Dr. Cade Brumley (11:33)

Yeah, we just call it our reading revival. We're hoping to see that in our state. We are seeing that. Look, kudos to Mississippi. They got out there early a decade plus ago. And what you see even now is some of the policies that they codified there are still bearing fruit and they're still having the harvest from that. You know, I think that for too long, schools and systems have chased things that they were never intended to chase. Like, schools were never intended to be the family. They were never intended to be the hospital, the restaurant. Really, they were intended to teach academic content. Maybe there's some room for discussion around values along the way, but academic content. 


And when you use your resources on all these other things and they are finite, you're not able to be as efficient and effective as necessary. So, you know, I talk a lot and I get some level of pushback around this, but I talk about, we're trying to narrow the scope of the job so that we're we can identify those things that we believe are most important we have and then using the resources that we have, the time that we have, the conversations that we have, our structures to really try to be excellent in those things. And look, we're talking policy, we're talking practice. We're talking some good results here, but it's not lost on me still that the work that remains to deliver on a high quality education for every kid.


Ginny Gentles (13:02)

Jumping to what's being discussed quite a lot in Washington, DC, where I'm based and what we're hearing around the confirmation conversation when it comes to Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon, and the future of the Department of Education, what is the impact of federal programs, federal strings, on your management of Louisiana's education reform efforts?


Dr. Cade Brumley (13:27)

Yeah, look, mean, we are, we know that ED exists, but we also believe that education is best as a local enterprise. And so we think that state leaders working with local leaders, moms and dads and teachers, that's where the best decisions are made. I am excited about Linda McMahon in the role of Secretary of Education. I think she'll be great. You know, whatever support that, you know, I can offer and or my team, we want to do that. I hope that she is immensely successful. She no doubt has a very complicated job and we should all work to support her in those efforts. But you know, she's talented. She's an executive. She's going to staff with competent people who know how to do the work. 


And I do think that we will see and ED as it moves to not existing as it makes that move, I think that we will see an ED that is focused on embracing and respecting state sovereignty, on expanding school choice efforts, and with their pulpit that they have, I think, you know, zeroing in and echoing and amplifying efforts that return to the pursuit of excellence in academic content.


Ginny Gentles (14:47)

On a practical level, some state leaders will throw out statistics like, hey half of my staff is dedicated to federal compliance. So you're providing less than 10% of funding overall for education in the country, but the administrative burden is considerable. Do you have any sense of what the federal government is, how the federal government is impacting your staffing at the state Department of Education?


Dr. Cade Brumley (15:16)

Yeah, I think it's true in most state education agencies. It's certainly true in mine where a significant portion of our staffing cost is covered by those federal dollars. But they're, I mean, it's hard for me to even call them federal dollars. They are dollars of the taxpayer that should be being used for a specific purpose. And unfortunately, over the last few years, those purposes were often radical and not relative to ensuring a quality education. 


I think that, and if I have to, I will push in on this, but I really just think that Linda McMahon and her team are going to recognize that all of these streams should not exist for states. States can do a good job if they're empowered to do a good job and that their local publics hold them accountable.


I'm really excited about where ED will go and we want to be a part of supporting that along the way. And we appreciate not having the onerous burdens and strings attached that have been placed on funding over the last few years.


Ginny Gentles (16:30)

Let's go back to what Louisiana is doing at the state level, because as you said, education is a local enterprise and state policy can help with that and help empower parents and educators. So the Louisiana legislature, the governor significantly expanded education freedom options for families last year. How's that going? What's the state of education freedom or school choice in the state right now?


Dr. Cade Brumley (16:58)

Yeah, I mean, overwhelmingly families are selecting their local neighborhood schools and that's good. We need to make sure they're quality. We have a robust portfolio of public charters. You know, I talk routinely about protecting the independence of our homeschool families, protecting them from government. And then, you know, we have launched via last legislative session and the power of the governor and Governor Landry, Educational Savings Accounts, our Gator program. 


So right now we're in the process of scaling that program up, readying for launch. We are signing up providers at this point, whether those are non-public schools, public schools that could offer services, tutoring providers, et cetera. And we will, beginning in March, the spring launch applications for families. 


And so we're set to be on go for the 25-26 school year with Gator. And it does become a question during this upcoming legislative session of what will be the investment from the legislature and the governor in terms of an appropriation towards the program. So, you know, we're doing our work as a state education agency to have a launch. We will have a launch. The question really becomes, I think at this point for families and providers, is around scale so that we have an appreciation of what investment will be there for the program.


Ginny Gentles (18:25)

Okay, so we've got residentially assigned public schools and homeschooling, of course, the upcoming Education Savings Account program, the Gator program. The state historically has had a number of charter schools, especially in New Orleans. What's the state of the public charter sector in Louisiana right now?


Dr. Cade Brumley (18:45)

Yeah, it's growing. I mean, we actually even have funding available, federal funding around the charter school program. So we have funding where we're trying to launch new charters over the next five years. We've already launched some new charters. Unfortunately, I had to be combative with the previous administration because they were trying to restrict charter growth around the country. And so we were able to push enough and get support congressionally on the push so that we could continue in states like Louisiana where we have this interest to launch quality charters. And so we'll continue to do that. We're launching charters now and we did last spring where we have students that are in schools that are failing them. 


We're going over into those communities. We're taking those schools and or forcing those local communities to allow those children to go into higher performing seats elsewhere or charter those schools. And so we're trying to use every lever that we have to put really parents in the driver's seat, but also make sure that every kid has access to a high quality seat.


Ginny Gentles (19:55)

Final question for you as we wrap up. Louisiana Senator Cassidy has introduced the Educational Choice for Children Act, a tax credit scholarship bill. And any thoughts on how that would change the Louisiana ecosystem once it was enacted?


Dr. Cade Brumley (20:10)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, I've been thinking about this for over a year. I endorsed this publicly over a year ago. I may have been the first chief to publicly endorse this in any state. I don't know. And that was something that I had to think about because I did not want more entanglement from the federal Department of Education. So I had to think about, you know, is this the right thing to endorse? And the reason that I ultimately did that was because it is about parents' choice, but it also is a credit for business and industry, and it's not to be executed within the Department of Education. And so ultimately I felt like, you know, our federal government spends a lot of money on things certainly that I don't believe in or historically has, and I do believe in school choice. So, you know, let's use some of the funding that is taxpayer funding for that. 


So anything that we can do to support the efforts of those senators that are leading the charge here, we want to do that.


Ginny Gentles (21:09)

Well Cade Brumley, thank you so much for your commitment to education freedom and to parental rights. Thank you for joining Freedom to Learn.


Dr. Cade Brumley (21:15)

Thanks for having me.


Ginny Gentles (21:18)
Freedom to Learn is a production of the Defense of Freedom Institute. You can learn more about DFI at dfipolicy.org. If you have feedback or suggestions for future podcasts, please reach out to us at podcast@dfipolicy.org. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe and leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.